Posts by Disillusioned JW

17

What did Jesus Teach the "Kingdom of Heaven/God" is?

by truth_b_known in

the books of matthew, mark, luke, john, and the beginning of acts are filled with what the authors purport are statements of jesus.

jesus is quoted as making several statements about "the kingdom of heaven" or "the kingdom of god".

those statements are often given as parables that start with a phrase something like "the kingdom of heaven is like...".

Disillusioned JW

It seems to me that Well's did not believe that Jesus taught an apocalyptic message, but I believe that Jesus did teach an apocalyptic message.

17

What did Jesus Teach the "Kingdom of Heaven/God" is?

by truth_b_known in

the books of matthew, mark, luke, john, and the beginning of acts are filled with what the authors purport are statements of jesus.

jesus is quoted as making several statements about "the kingdom of heaven" or "the kingdom of god".

those statements are often given as parables that start with a phrase something like "the kingdom of heaven is like...".

I think the most reliable extant sources of what Jesus taught about the kingdom of God the gospel books called "According to Mark" and "According to Matthew". The message is that the kingdom of God is as follows. It is near, very near, even at hand (Mark 1:1, 4-5, 14-15; Matthew 3:1-2, 7-12) and that the kingdom is the god's rule on the Earth (at least over Judea) through the messianic son of man. The son of man would rule on Earth. In order to enter the kingdom and receive its blessings people would have to obey the god's laws and seek righteousness, including loving one's neighbor as oneself, and by striving hard to get into the kingdom (Matthew chapters 5 through 7; 18:7-9). Jesus' message about the kingdom was an apocalyptic one (Matthew 13:1-52; 16:27-28; chapters 24-25). The existing political systems and the existing economic systems would be overturned by the kingdom. Many of the poor and of the oppressed would become blessed (Matthew 9:35-38) and most of the rich would suffer and fail to enter the kingdom (Matthew 19:23-24). Those existing in slavery would be released from bondage. Those who worshiped the god properly would be cured of infirmities and of diseases and would receive long life (Matthew 4:23; 10:7-8; 11:2-6; 14:14; 15:30-39). The dead would raised to life (Matthew 10:8; 27:51-53). The resurrected righteous dead would be greatly rewarded and the resurrected unrighteous dead would be judged and receive contempt (John 5;28-29; Daniel 12:2; John 11:24).

Reading what H.G. Wells' said about Jesus in Wells' two volume book called The Outline Of History: Being A Palin History Of Life And Mankind (but note the subtitle on the cover of the book is "The Whole Story Of Man") contributed to be once again believing that Jesus was a historical person. [The edition I read is the final revised edition, revised by Raymond Postgate and G. P. Wells, bearing the copyright date of 1971.] That is because I saw how his apocalyptic message, including a number of hard sayings for those who were prosperous, indicate that Jesus of Galilee must have existed as the founder (or probably a co-founder along with John the baptist/baptizer) of the Nazarene movement within Judaism which later evolved (largely due to Saul/Paul of Tarsus) into what became known as Christianity.

The apocalyptic message of Jesus failed to come true (other than the destruction of Jerusalem). The kingdom of the god did not become established upon Earth throughout the Earth, nor even upon Judea.

Page 445 of Wells' book says the following.

"....remarkable is the enormous prominence given by Jesus to the teaching of what he called the Kingdom of Heaven, and its comparative insignificance in the procedure and teaching of most of the Christian churches.

This doctrine of the Kingdom Heaven, which was the main teachings of Jesus, and which plays so small a part in the Christian creeds, is certainly one of the most revolutionary doctrines that ever stirred and changed human thought.

... For the doctrine of the Kingdom of Heaven,a s Jesus seems to have preached it, was no less than a bold and uncompromising demand for a complete change and cleansing of the life of our struggling race, an utter cleansing without and within."

28

Do you pray?

by Fisherman in

i’ve always had a personal relationship with god that is not affected by any issues or controversies i have with anybody..

Disillusioned JW

truth_b_known, the points you make about prayer are good ones. Even before I got baptized I discovered that prayer doesn't work - I discovered it doesn't make any difference in outcomes whether I pray or not. Instead what makes a difference is determining (through contemplation and study) which actions should be done and then doing them to achieve what I want.

52

Free Will - Does It or Does It Not Exist?

by truth_b_known in

being born-in and raised as one of jehovah's witnesses i remember a common theme or phrases used by the watchtower in its theory of why things are the way they are -.

jehovah created humans.

jehovah created humans as free moral agents.

Disillusioned JW

Claiming temporary insanity, or other impaired mental condition, in a court of law has sometimes worked.

52

Free Will - Does It or Does It Not Exist?

by truth_b_known in

being born-in and raised as one of jehovah's witnesses i remember a common theme or phrases used by the watchtower in its theory of why things are the way they are -.

jehovah created humans.

jehovah created humans as free moral agents.

Disillusioned JW

Free will exists only in the sense of being free to act in accordance with our nature. But our human nature, as a result of our biology, includes built-in constraints as to what we can do and as to what we can not do. Definitely no personal deity is involved, and very probably no deistic creator is involved either.

28

Do you pray?

by Fisherman in

i’ve always had a personal relationship with god that is not affected by any issues or controversies i have with anybody..

Disillusioned JW

No.

68

Where it all went wrong for the WT - JF Rutherford

by LoveUniHateExams in

i was thinking a bit about this the other day.

ct russell, from what i remember about him, kinda seemed like a genuine, nice(ish) guy, although he had a few eccentric but harmless ideas.. during the russell era jws (actually bible students) could still celebrate christmas, worship in other churches if there was no kingdom hall available, and accept blood transfusions.. then after russell died, along came rutherford - a major league a-hole, for sure.. rutherford had plenty of eccentric ideas but at least some of them weren't/aren't harmless.

some have been long forgotten about - jesus depicted without a beard, the plan to rename the names of the week because names such as thursday (thor's day) is pagan, the articles about the 'dangers' of aluminium, etc.. one key contribution of rutherford which does a lot of harm is no blood transfusions, even in life-threatening situations.. another is shunning, something which never occurred under russell, or at least was much milder.. rutherford has a lot to answer for, i reckon ....

Disillusioned JW

Thank you slimboyfat and Earnest for disproving many of the hurtful lies from long ago about Charles Taze Russell which were repeated in this forum topic about J. F. Rutherford.

Regarding Russell's degree of education, anyone who has read any of Russell's books can see that Russell's knowledge of English vocabulary and English language proficiency went beyond that of a sixth grade formal education. Even if the a person's formal education did not exceed that of sixth grade and even if that person did not receive any tutoring, that person could receive further education by informal means, including by extensive reading and by personal study. Such could have been the case of Russell. Furthermore, Russell received some knowledge of theology by his personal reading of the theological writings of others.

I'm not saying that Russell was correct in all of his theological teachings. He was in error in much of what he taught, but he also was correct in some of what he taught. For example, when he taught that the Bible teaches that the human soul dies and when said what he thought the Bible claims is the nature of the human soul, he was largely in agreement with what a number of biblical scholars had said the OT Bible teaches and of what the early Hebrews believed. Furthermore, a number of currently living biblical scholars (including Bart Ehrman) teach largely the same on those matters as Russell did.

36

Do you believe that this life is all there is

by Fisherman in

the bible records resurrections and there is orher evidence besides that gives hope.

what do you think, is there enough evidence to believe in another life?.

Disillusioned JW

Fisherman, I do not believe there is an afterlife. I very strongly believe that this life is all there is. I disbelieve the Bible's claims that someone supernatural exists, that something supernatural exists, that something supernatural happened, that supernatural events happen, and that supernatural events will happen. I think that in some cases (probably even in many cases) that the Bible writers were sincere in teaching a resurrection and the existence of the supernatural, but that they were in error in having those views. A number of times even when I was an active JW I had doubts that there would be a resurrection to life. A number of times even when I was an active JW I doubted that eternal life for humans (whether in heaven or on Earth) will ever be real.

Biahi I have seen copies of the book called Heaven Is for Real by pastor Todd Burpo and by Lynn Vincent, but I don't believe the book's claims that the boy actually went to heaven (though I believe that the authors might be sincere in the making the claims). An article at Psychology Today , by a professor of psychology, presents a skeptical analysis of the book. The article says in part the following.

"... Colton never died; according to the movie, his heart never stopped beating and his brain never stopped functioning. Since according to the modern Christian understanding, one’s soul doesn’t leave one’s body until one dies, the idea that Colton’s soul went to a Christian heaven is inconsistent with a modern Christian understanding of persons and death—a view it seems the Burpos endorse."

The writer of the article even states what the view of the authors of the OT regarding Sheol and regarding Paul's view of resurrection, and that such conflicts with the idea of a conscious human soul leaving the fleshly body. In part the professor says the following in the article about the views of the OT authors and of Paul.

"Those authors did not have the dualist understanding of persons that modern Christians like the Burpos endorse; those authors did not conceive of a person as a body and a soul, and they certainly didn't think that your soul separates from your body upon death to enter heaven. For example, the Old Testament authors had a monistic view of a person—a person is made of a single substance—and thought people (bad or good) went to Sheol when they die—a place beneath the ground where the dead simply sleep. (One does not experience Sheol.) For a special person like Elijah to not suffer such a fate and instead enter heaven, one's body must be physically taken there. The apostle Paul, as a Jew, would have been working with a similar understanding and in fact endorses such an understanding in his writings."

In the article the professor also says the following. "If you have to make excuses that are immune to evidence to save your theory from the evidence, that's likely because your theory is false. When making a claim about what has occurred in the world, the first thing a rational hypothesis needs to be is testable. But ad hoc excuses make hypotheses un-testable."

162

A new generation of anointed that will not pass away.

by Fisherman in

obviously, the older “ anointed ” from 1914 died.

and because they were anointed, they hopefully went to heaven.

in the first century though, a newer generation did not replace the old.

Disillusioned JW

Vanderhoven7, are you a preterist? Do you believe Jesus made his second coming in 70 CE and that he thus will not come in the future? Do you believe a rapture of anointed Christians took place in 70 CE?

29

A group of 136 countries set a minimum global tax rate of 15% for big corporations

by Disillusioned JW in

a group of 136 countries set a minimum global tax rate of 15% for big corporations.

that is a major goal accomplished by the biden administration.

seehttps://www.wsj.com/articles/countries-agree-to-global-deal-to-curb-tax-avoidance-11633709979 .. if corresponding legislation gets passed into law in the usa it will be much harder for corporations doing business in the usa to move their operations out of the usa to avoid paying their fair share of taxes.

Disillusioned JW

I wasn't being sarcastic at all. I was saying what I was convinced of as being true. Years ago a postal clerk told me that and later I verified its accuracy on the internet. The government (congress?) does regulate how much the post office can charge for postage (and votes on proposed names for post office branches), but the post office raises their own money (through what they charge in postage and fees) to their customers. Perhaps I am in error about the post office's finances, but I meant what I said.